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Against All Odds Podcast, The Less than 1% Chance with Maria Aponte
Maria highlights stories of people that have been the "less than 1% chance" and have come out of their situations thriving and seeing life as happening FOR them and not TO them! Inspiring and empowering stories that will show you that against all odds you can make it through anything!
Against All Odds Podcast, The Less than 1% Chance with Maria Aponte
So I Wore A Hoodie To Church And Waited For Someone To Say Something with Yoel ben Yisrael
A quiet hoodie, a crowded hall, and a long wait for words that never came. That’s the moment Yoel realized his soul needed something his community wouldn’t name. From a childhood inside the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society to a basement prayer that stripped away pretense, this conversation follows a raw journey through belonging, culture, and the courage to change.
We unpack the early affirmation of field service and public readings, the high of baptism, and the grief of stepping away from a structure that held friends, language, and identity. In a multicultural classroom, Yoel discovered how incomplete his own history felt—and how honest questions can open doors polite faith keeps shut. Trayvon Martin’s killing became a turning point; the silence from the pulpit was loud enough to fracture trust. Together we explore empathy fatigue, the role of media in shaping outrage and despair, and practical ways to protect your inner life while staying human in public.
Yoel shares how deeper study reframed scripture and history, revealing a resonant, melanated presence and a Messiah who dignified the marginalized. We talk about the kingdom of heaven not as a slogan but as an ethical blueprint—love your neighbor, honor your parents, refuse envy, reject cruelty—that anyone can practice. If you’ve ever felt your culture and religion pulling you apart, or wished we talked about hard things with more grace, this story will meet you where you are and point you toward hope.
If this conversation moved you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find these stories. Your voice helps build the kinder world we’re all searching for.
Connect with Yoel:
Instagram: @leb_tahor
Podcast: The Kingdom Besorah
Love Your Life
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Welcome back to the Against All Odds, the Less than 1% Chance podcast with your host, Maria Aponte, where we will hear stories of incredible people thriving against all odds. And my hope is that we can all see how life is always happening for us, even when we are the less than 1% chance. Hey, hey, welcome back to Against All Odds, the Less than 1% Chance podcast with your host, Maria Aponte. I am so excited to have you guys back for another amazing interview. I'm just now getting to know our friend Yoel. So I will introduce him, just a little bit of what kind of started his story. So Yoel Ben Yusserel. So I hopefully I said that correctly. I'm so excited. I practically was born in Southfield, Michigan, and raised in Detroit. He's simultaneously born into a Watchtower Bible and track society. Although his um parents were well-intentioned and meant well, the religion that they chose was just filled with a lot of gaslighting and racial microaggressions and white supremacy and brainwashing. It wasn't something that he was aligned with anymore and made a change in his life. I am excited to hear his story.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, man. Thank you so very much, Maria. This is exciting. I am just, I feel like a bottle of like bubbly grape juice because I'm just bubbling with the excitement to be on with you. I've been listening to your podcast, and it's very cool what you do. And like you, you I want to say this before I just start blabbing around about myself, as a podcast host, another podcast host, like you have a way about you, like about how to get things out of people. The conversation is very natural and it is very fluid and it flows very organic. So I applaud you for what you do on your podcast. It is very cool. It's very cool.
SPEAKER_05:It's so funny how you just never know what your life is gonna look like until you're like, oh, I have a dream. I have this on my heart, and maybe it'll turn into something. And then we were just talking about like last season. For me, it was like I was trying to get people on, and if I couldn't find people, I would just do solo episodes, and it was like week of, and I was like, this is awesome, and also so exhausting. Um and then I just I prayed for what I wanted, and I said it out loud. I said it to my boyfriend. I was like, I really just want to be a few episodes ahead so that I'm not so stressed out about getting things up, and then 20 episodes later, and season two just released today's as this recording. So I'm really, really excited that it's evolved into something so amazing. So thank you. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes, I so appreciate being on your platform, and uh yeah, man, this is like the thing you have, it is very cool to be against all odds. And um, yeah, I feel like with myself, that's definitely what was happening to me regarding this journey from being born into the religion of the Watchtower Bible and track society, growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, to now where I am now. And so, yeah, I guess the best place to start at is at the beginning for sure. So, yes, as you said, I love how you phrase that, your rhetoric on that, is that my my parents, they did, they have they were very well intentioned, and I love my mom and I love my dad, my mom and dad to life. And so I was born into the Watchtower and Bible track society, and um, so surrounded by Jehovah's Witnesses, and I have to say as well, too, that Jehovah's Witnesses are a very, very sweet group, a very sweet, nice people. I I don't know, like you would be hard pressed to find one that's like super cantankerous and just sour and just like not doesn't have a love for life. There's sweet people.
SPEAKER_05:So can I ask you really quick? Then what you were born into, was that like a extension of Jehovah's Witness? So, like, and I hate to use this word, but cult, they're usually just like extensions of an ideal, right? So a religion, and then they build their ideals around this ideal just in a more extreme way. Is that what you were born into then?
SPEAKER_03:Excellent. That's an excellent question. So the Watchtower Bible and Track Society, I would submit and suggest that they are like the umbrella will be like Christianity, and I would say they are like a sectarian sect or group within this umbrella of Christianity. And so, yeah, so they they have their like like unique and peculiar ideologies and their ideals and their translation regarding the Bible, they have their own translation, the new world translation of the Bible as well, that translations committee has produced. So, yeah, so I would describe them as like a sectarian group under the umbrella of Christianity. And so you mentioned the word code as well, too. And so it's man, it's very funny to me because while you're in something, you can't really identify or see it from the outside. I guess the best analogy that I can use is like uh a fish that's swimming within the water. If you ask a fish what is water, you probably be hard pressed to get it. Yeah, yeah, it's normal, it's normal. It's normal, it's normal, it's normal. It's like you'd be hard-pressed to get a dissertation on like what is water from from a fish who lives in it, right? It's hard to explain. Yeah, but being extricated from that and being put away from that, and you're right, I don't like to use the word cult, but there are some practices that are very much so cultish that happened within the Washa Bible and track society. So my mom and dad, they got divorced when I was like really young. And so my mom would take my brother and my younger brother and I to the kingdom of Jehovah's Witnesses. And it's funny because I'm fascinated with literature that can answer life's biggest existential questions. Like, why are we here? Why is Maria and Yo here? Like, what's our purpose in life? Why are we on this earth? What am I here to do? What are my gifts? What are my passions? Is there a creator? Is there a higher power bigger than us as well? So the Bible really just arrested my attention.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it lays it out for you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, right. It does, it lays it out, and and I love my brother as well, too. And and I think that this is like a um a picture of how you can have a book, but it can resonate with people at different stages of their life. And granted, we we were young, so we would go to the kingdom hearts. I would just be just be on the edge of my seat, being a sponce open everything in, and my younger brother was would be just fast asleep, just snoring, and my mom went saying, like, wake your brother, wake him up. So I feel like that's a picture of like in in different seasons, like some passages, or or I think the Bible as a whole will will resonate with with the person, yeah, just at different times of their life.
SPEAKER_05:Um I think that, and to that point, because I was raised Catholic, I still consider myself Catholic, and there was seasons where as a child, me and my little sister would fall asleep during sermons. And then as there were seasons of my life where, and a lot of the times it depended on the priest that was preaching or doing their sermon that I fully connected with that I was like tears were falling down my face because I'm like, is he talking to me right now? Because this feels really real. So I feel like that religion itself, like you can't. I'm of the belief of with religion, you can't make anybody listen. You can try to have them understand, but you can't make anyone listen until they're fully ready to open their art, their heart, and their ears for it.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, ma'am. Yes, yes, that is absolutely right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's what kind of resonated with me as you were saying that you were like at the edge of your seat and then your brother was sleeping. That that's been different parts of my own journey. There were moments in my life that I was just like, why are we gotta do this, mom? And then other parts that I was just like, I can't wait to go because every single time he speaks, I move to tears. Yes, because it is hitting me exactly what my heart needs in that moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_05:So I just yeah, that's what came to mind as you were saying that. I was like, Yeah, I can totally relate.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and if my brother ever hears this dominant, I I love you to life, bro. So going to frequenting the kingdom hall, and and so eventually I got more sincere within this religion, so there's like levels to it, and so eventually, as I grew up, there's this thing called field service that I got involved in. And field service is for those who may not know, is you go out, it's like this door-to-door evangelism. You go from door to door and and and you're knocking on doors, and I will not front. The first time that I went from door to door, I was just super scared. It's funny because my biggest fear in going from door to door and passing out these watchtower magazines, these awake magazines, was I did not want to run into a classmate. I did not want to run into a teacher. Um, because I feel like if people knew that, oh, like he's a Jehovah Witness, like they start to act different and treat me differently. Oh, okay, here comes this Bobble Thumper, and he's gonna say we are going to burn. And so I want you to still treat me as a human being. Like, there's this.
SPEAKER_05:Don't judge me for my religion. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:There's this um caricature regarding religious, religious characters, religious people in general that like they're fuddy duddies and they can't have fun. They always want to rain on your parade, and they always like the Bible says this, and the Bible says that. And so I I guess during that time, and this I'm fast-forwarding to high school. And I think you were during during high school, you're in this like coming of age period. I don't want you all to pigeonhole me as this quote unquote reverend doctor bishop guy who's just trying to pass his final look. I'm trying to get my diploma just like the rest of y'all, man. It's like it's like pressure be put on to be this perfect person. I I went on a field service and then I I will um never forget it. I matriculated into what's called the Theocratic Ministry School within the organization. This is a brilliant school that trains and grooms young people, um, middle-aged people, all older, seasoned believers to articulate and defend their worldview. And so I would go on the podium and give public Bible readings. And so during this time, I was very active within the Kingdom Hall, just going on stage and reading the Bible. And I remember my very first time. For me, I am an over-prepared and I'm a uh perfectionist. So I will just be like weeks before we met, we met Thursday nights in the Kingdom Hall. I would just, I would have my Bible and I would just be reading it over and over. The part that I had to read that night, in the future, I'll read that thing over and over again. Just to make sure, like I pause at the commas. And if there are these names that are like super hard to pronounce, because you because you got some chapters in the Bible where it's like, okay, these polysyllabic names, but we don't see these names in 2024 today. So I would be rehearsing those over and over again. And so I remember putting my student tie on, looking in the mirror, and my mom drove me to the Kingdom Hall, my brother and I, and my my name was called up, and I walked into the podium and I was reading. And as soon as I got done reading, there was like this thunderous applause. And for me, that was everything. I was like, whoa, like this is good. It's like I won a granule or like an Oscar or something. I'm like, whoa, like this is amazing. And I feel like I'm doing the right thing, reading the Bible, and I'm making my parents please with me, and I'm getting this communal sense of belonging to this specific tribe, if I could put it that way. And so fast forwarding, I got baptized in February 24, 2007, and I still have the picture of it. Somebody took a picture of me getting getting baptized, and I flipped the picture over, it was like a Polaroid picture. So if Gen Z and Millennials listen, they're like, What's a Polaroid picture?
SPEAKER_05:They have now their own version of Polaroids. Okay, they did. Okay, so they they understand. I think they understand.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, cool, cool, very cool. So I'm not a uh a dinosaur. I flipped the Polaroid over and I wrote the date, February 24, 2007. And maybe I was being super deep, I don't know, but I was like, oh, like to me, like this is a sign because February 24 and 7, and so I looked at that as I'm gonna be a witness for um Jehovah, as I called him back then, 24-7. Like, I don't care who's around me. And and you like when you first, I don't know what it is, but when you first become an official member of your respective religion, there is this zeal that just comes over a person. It's like I gotta tell everybody about what I believe. I don't care what I'm doing, where I'm at, like, you gotta know, grandma gotta know, the puppy dog gotta know. They can't like everybody gotta know about my faith and my worldview. And so I remember distinctly my my dad coming to me when I after I got immersed, after I got baptized, and he said, he said, you know, congratulations, son, but he said to me very proactively, he said, now you have a a bullseye that's on your back, and basically Satan is going to try to trip you up because of this commitment that you've made. And so I at the time I um thought that was like rather radical. So I was like, man, because I I know about the devil and Satan, but I was like, uh how are you gonna how are you gonna rain on my parade? Yeah, yeah, basically. I was like, man, like I just got immersed. I'm saying, pumped, I'm ready for this. Yeah, I'm like, man, that was sobering. Okay, so I took that to heart, but in the moment, I'm like, I'm still basking and being but new Joe's Witness member. And so I'm fast forwarding to my senior year in high school. So this is about a year later, and I'm going through what I talk about this existential identity crisis of trying to find out who is yours, who am I? And to go a little step further and give some more context to the content. I went to a very like multicultural high school. So, like seeing all these beautiful cultures just surrounding me, like Bangladeshi culture and Pakistani, Among culture, Asian culture, Nigerian culture, all these different cultures just swirling around me, it really just captivated me, but it also caused me to be introspective one day. And this is when I became very introspective and very self-conscious about this identity crisis. We were in um Spanish class and we were doing a presentation, a group presentation on your culture, the culture that you belong to. And just all these, just my peers were going up and they had their presentation and they had their pictures about what they eat for their food and their attire and their language, things that nature, and and they could like pinpoint like where they come from, their country. I'm like, wow, this is like so beautiful, man. And so when we got up there, my route, uh I was presenting, but for the first time, Maria, I felt this ambivalence of I am excited to let you all know about the culture that I belong to, like being an African-American. But also I feel like I felt some chagrin, to be honest with you, because I feel like there's something missing, though. There feels like this vacuum or a huge chasm or chunk of my history that I'm not, that I am just ignorant about. And so in my mind, I'm like, there has to be more to our history than just slavery and slave chips, civil rights, and these are just nature. And so after sitting down, I feel like that's when God really began to like work with me. And I love how the creator, he never abandons us when we like hit that rock bottom and when we're in a state of confusion and we're trying to figure things out in life. Uncertainty.
SPEAKER_05:That uncertainty is it just yeah, that's when you have to like. So I always say when we pray to God or whoever you believe in, right? But when we listen to our intuition, like what our gut is telling us, it's us listening to God talk back to us, give us the direction.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's good.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna need to uh post that up on my uh Facebook thread later. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Because I've always known that I have really high intuitive connection, if you will. Like every time I've moved anywhere, I've always looked at houses or apartments, and I'm like, nope, nope, nope, this doesn't feel good. And then when I walk in and I'm like, oh, this is it. It doesn't have to have anything specific. It just my energy, I feel it in my belly that I'm like, oh, this just feels good. This feels right. And I feel like we pray to whoever we pray to, right? And we want health, happiness to feel good, to do good, to be good, right? Yes, and and have a purpose and leave a legacy and all of these things.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:So we just have to learn how to listen to that intuition because that's his way of guiding us to because if you do listen to your intuition, it might take you through some rocky roads, but it never steers you wrong. Like it always leads you to like where you're supposed to be, yes, and what you're supposed to go through and who you're supposed to meet. I really truly believe that people come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime, right? So there's yes, but there's people like but that's your rocky road to wherever you're supposed to be. And if you listen to that intuition, if you listen to hit whatever he's telling you, um then whatever road, just like you against all odds, right? You you get to where you should be and where what you're supposed to do, and you're able to leave your legacy, and you're able to, I don't know, do what you're meant to do.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Man, that is delicious. That is really good. That is excellent. I can so resonate with that, and I feel like uh you have that gift of discernment, whereas like I can tell, like how you say regarding this is a good environment for me to be in or not, if I should move myself or these are good people to be around or not. Yeah, I feel like he's gifted you with that gift of this very acute discernment factor, which is super, super cool, man. Yeah, man. I feel like when I was like in this space of just trying to figure out who I am and what are my roots and what is my culture. And I feel like it's unique with us African Americans because of slavery and because of the transatlantic slave trade and being so just divorced from our history. And so I've brought all these questions, all these inquiries, all these burning frustrations to God. And I feel like, Maria, this is one of the realest vulnerable, transparent, organic prayers that I had ever prayed to God up until this point in a very long time. Because I feel like sometimes within our prayer life, we can get very mechanical and very robotic and very routine, and it can feel like aloof and like we just going through the motions, like we know what to say. But in this moment, I walked down into the basement of my mother's home because I was living with my mom, still being a teenager, and I'm being like 17 when I'm 18 in my senior year. I walk down to the basement, and I as I'm telling you this story, I don't think I've said this, but I feel like even that was like a picture of me going to like the humblest, lowest level within the home, and being, I feel like at that moment in life, in like the humblest, lowest level, trying to just search for who I am and just going down. And I went down to the basement and I got on my knees and just face planted to the ground. And I was just praying to to Jehovah God in Jesus' name, just pouring everything out of just pointing everything out of the bottom of my heart, just saying, like, who am I? Like, why didn't you create me? Why am I here? Why did slavery happen to my people? Because if slavery didn't happen, I feel like I would know like my roots and my cultural, uh, roots and my ethnicity and my native tongue and things of that nature. And so I'm pouring all the, I'm pouring everything out, all this stuff out to God. And I feel like this, I feel like this is gonna help somebody too, is that like he is not intimidated by our most vulnerable thoughts, no matter how crude they are, no matter how unpolished they are, no matter how messy it may sound, if if we don't have the correct eloquence or we don't have the correct five dollar words to say, I feel like he knows us better better than our parents do, but better than we do. And even when you're groaning and moaning, just saying, like he, those visceral sounds that come out of us, I think he can translate those. And he knows, like how any loving father knows that okay, my son or my daughter is crying out to me. That's it, that's their souls. I am going to help them out. And so that's what I feel like happened in that very moment. And so what's very interesting is that fast forwarding to, I believe that was, um, I want to say that was like 20, I think it's 2021, this event really was a catalyst for me beginning beginning to heal. And so it was a rather it was a rather traumatic event that happened in America was when Trevor Martin got killed by George Zimmerman. And so I'm out of high school and I'm going to community college. And once again, I keep on getting around these atmospheres where like it's very multicultural.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And this identity crisis, it's still existential. But I feel like this moment it really helped me because I could so relate to Trey Vine of us both being African-American, us both wearing the hoodies, us both going to convenience stores, and it was nature. And it also confused me as to why this happened because I'm like, but we we we have a melanated Kenyan African president in the White House and Barack Obama. I think it was his second term under that that he was in. And I was like, man, I really thought that America had matured past this. And I talk about this within the book as well, because I was really drinking this like post-racial Kool-Aid that America was dishonest. It's like, oh, everything is equal and like it's all good. But I felt like with episodes with Trayvon Martin and episodes with like police brutality and all these things happening, I feel like, man, maybe perhaps we we have some more maturing to do. And so I took that to God, and I just began to really just just look at my religion, the watchtower, for answers. And what I realized now, Maria, is that sometimes we can kind of like idolize our religion because now it's funny because when I think about it, I was asking questions, interrogating the watchtower, but God answered me. And so I was like, oh man, I remember there was a Thursday night, and and and to give context, we had switched Kingdom Halls. We had switched from going to a predominantly African-American Kingdom Hall to predominantly like white kingdom hall. And during this time, I'm reading books to try to figure out a lot of history. I'm reading black history books, I'm reading Frederick Douglass and slave narratives. And I had to, I literally got to a point where I had to put the books down because I was like, man, like the atrocities that happened during America's, I feel like it's darkest chapter was so harrowing that I began to project that anger toward my beloved white brothers and sisters who were practicing who are or Jehovah's Witnesses. And I was like, man, this ain't me. Like I'm a happy guy, like I'm a chill dude, and I don't want to keep harboring this anger and go around being mad at this people group. And so I had to step away from that for a season. But I remember just going to the Kingdom Hall, but this night it was different, like it was different for me because I saw celebrities like LeBron James and different people, the Miami Heat, he's playing for Miami Heat back then. And he put on a they wore hoodies to be in solidarity with Treyvon Martin. And that's exactly what I did. I I went to the Kingdom Hall because I was just waiting for somebody to ask me or for somebody to like give me an answer as to why this is going on within the world, specifically regarding my people group. And so I walked in there and I tried to use as much wisdom as I possibly could. So I didn't go all up in there like super militaristic and black power fist and like trying to like disrupt service, and no, because well, one, my mom don't play that. Number one, really important.
SPEAKER_05:My mom would like totally have a connection on it.
SPEAKER_03:18 years old. Oh, it doesn't matter. Yeah, no, I don't care about none of that. So I feel like I was trying to use some heavenly wisdom. So I politely took I took off my hoodie and I hung it on the hanger that they have over the Nikki Hall, and I walked into this the auditorium where we have service. And Maria, I was just waiting. And it felt like the longest wait ever. I was just waiting for like somebody from the podium to say something about this current event because it was very topical. Trevon Martin dying, and it was so fresh within the media. I was just waiting for some biblical commentary to come from the podium, and I'm waiting, and it never happened. And so, like, that hit me differently at 18 as opposed to being young.
SPEAKER_05:Because I'm like, why is my religion turning this blind eye to something that that is very prevalent in society and what's happening in the world? Oh, yeah, I totally can understand that. And it's heartbreaking because you we look for answers from these communities, and and when things aren't addressed and we just don't know how to feel a certain way, and we have these stored feelings in our body that are just like this doesn't feel right. And at the same time, and I always speak from my heart, so this is just what's coming to me. Yes, I feel like when you were saying the people that weren't of the same color as you, right, that's right. You couldn't come out with this anger towards. I I feel like that right now is it's so sad that we have to categorize people. I'm Puerto Rican, but you wouldn't be able to tell by my super light skin and light eyes, right? But why is it that it has to be because you are certain color, you are the same as this person?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_05:That to me sits so wrong, and it it does something in my soul because I'm not even the same person I was five years ago. So, how are you gonna categorize me in this group of people? Whether it's people being supremacists or being like black power or that's right, whatever. Like, why do we have to categorize people in these categories when each person is so individual?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. Man, you man, you are preaching, Maria.
SPEAKER_05:You are preaching it again. It just it just something that like I have it, it's the same thing with politics now. I feel like why do we have to be Republican or Democrat? Why can it just be we just are standing for what we believe in and what you believe in and what I believe in can be completely different? And I respect what you believe, and you respect what I believe. Why does society find it necessary to push an agenda if you don't believe in it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:I feel like there's so many things that are happening right now in this world where we can't why can't we just respect each other? Yes, it's so simple. You don't want me to. Try to change your mind, so why are you trying to change mine? Like, do unto others how you what you would want to have done to you, right? Like it's so simple. It is so simple. Like, why can't we go to simple principles in life? Like, if you believe in gun control, then great, good for you.
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_05:If you believe that we should all have guns, great, good for you. If you believe in abortion, that's your belief. If you believe that's not right, then that's your belief. Why do we have to try to change people's beliefs? And I think that's where it then becomes so extreme. Yes. Let's say I'm pro-choice.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:However, the reason that I'm pro-choice would be because when I was 16, I was raped. So if I was sexually assaulted at 16 and I've been through a circumstance where if I would have gotten pregnant from that person, that would have been a forever reminder of what I've gone through.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Or I just had a podcast episode with a lady that her biological father was abusing her for five years and at 15 she got pregnant.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_05:So that and she had an abortion. Is it okay? Like it so in my brain, I'm like, if I'm pro-choice, then there's a reason for it. Why does my mind have to be changed by somebody else? Why can't you just respect? That's my thoughts. And I have friends on both sides of the spectrum. And I love that we can have conversations that isn't you trying to change my mind. It's just simply giving your perspective of it. And we respect each other. And I think that's what this world needs. Is I just feel like it needs people just being kind to each other and understanding that we've been through different things in our lives. So you don't know. Like the families of these kids from Sandy Hook or the school in Texas where they've been through some really tough situations, they've lost their babies.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_05:So okay, to me, there's so much extremes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. You're right. You're so right.
SPEAKER_05:Why can't we just be kind to each other and accept that we all have a voice and that we all have thoughts? And if your beliefs aren't substantiated and listening to somebody else makes you understand their beliefs, yes, then goodness gracious, that's so good. That's okay. But it shouldn't be like, well, this is what I believe in. You're wrong.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_05:That's the beauty of living in the USA, right? That's right. That's right. You have this freedom. I've had family die for this freedom.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:It shouldn't be. I don't know. I just I feel like humanity right now is going through this major internal war.
SPEAKER_02:That is spot on. Yes. Man, that is spot on, Maria.
SPEAKER_05:And I just, and it really makes me sad because I feel like we should I if I'm not mistaken, I live in the city where Trayvon was killed.
SPEAKER_03:I oh wow.
SPEAKER_05:I live in, yeah, I live in Sanford, Florida. So I believe that's the yeah. Yep, yeah, you're right. Yes, I'm so that was very, very big in my area, even in the county where I live in. Right. And so I remember all of that. And is there bad people? Yeah, is there bad cops? Absolutely. That doesn't mean they're all bad.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_05:Is there criminals out there? Yes, and just because they're that criminal is a specific color, that's right, doesn't mean that all those people are bad.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, no.
SPEAKER_05:Why is it that we have to it without substantiating those judgments? It just sorry, it just as you were talking, I was like, oh my gosh, and I told you, like, whatever comes to my heart is what I have to say, and I feel and I just feel like what you are saying, we in different religions or cultures, families, you hide all of these things that we don't want to talk about. And in what how different would life be if we just had the conversation?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_05:Why couldn't we? And we always try to do the best we can because I don't think that people wake up and they're like, I'm just gonna do the worst that I can today, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:There's circumstances, right? Yes, yes, that you don't know what this other person is going through. I try so my son is driving, yes, ma'am, and I think that road rage is not a good thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:However, I live in Florida and people road rage like crazy. So when people cut me off, I've gotten my kids accustomed to like, oh, they really have to go to the bathroom. They are really having to go poop. And if you put poop in any conversation, you'll do exactly what you're doing. You'll laugh, right? But if you think about it, like so now it's so funny that when he drives and someone cuts him off or does something stupid or whatever, he'll be like, Mom, they really had to take a crap. And but it's if we could just if we could just give people the benefit of the doubt, yes, maybe maybe you're not the jerk, maybe you're not the a-hole, maybe you're just going through a really tough time.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_05:And we need to like have a conversation about this, yes, man.
SPEAKER_03:See, and you man, like you said so many good things, and this is why I was so excited to be on your podcast specifically because I love you, you do, you speak your heart, and I feel like that's what we need, and also you're great at having these conversations that need to be had because what I realized, see what the watchtower did, or I guess I would have to say what the Joe's Witnesses did around me, unbeknownst to them, is that I feel like in a way we are always communicating, whether it's verbal or whether it's non-verbal language. And so when when you when you get on the podium and you don't say anything, and I I talk about this within the book too, is like that's was like definitely loud to my ears. Because I was like, man, so you are communicating to me, even if you're not aware of it, even if you're doing it in a very innocuous, un unwittingly type of manner, that my people group doesn't really matter to you like that, and so they may not have had to vocalize it and say it verbally and say it verbatim in that way that I just said it, but that's how it hit me within my soul, like on a soul level. So I took my hoodie, I put it back on, and what I'm realizing, Maria, too, is that what the adversary does is I feel like things that we leave in the dark and things that we are silent on, they derive their strength from that silence, from that compliance, and they derive their strength from being in the darkness. So if we don't talk about things like polarizing topics like racism or politics, like things that divide us as when we talk about humanity on a global level, then that is the devil's playground and say, okay, well, they're not gonna if you're not gonna talk about it, best believe that the devil will prop up talking heads on a NBC, Fox News, CNN to fill in that narrative for you and to further divide a Yoel and a Maria, a African-American from a white person to continue to polarize us. Because if y'all not gonna talk about it, then the devil definitely has some people who have some things to say about it that will polarize us even further.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so what we're sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:No, yep, I totally agree. I stopped listening to the news years ago because I don't feel like they they don't have any of my good intentions, or they don't have any good intentions for my life, and I'm very empathetic. So, like when things are happening, it I it definitely chippers away at my energy.
SPEAKER_01:Me too.
SPEAKER_05:It's so hard. Like, I remember when uh hurricane Maria happened, no pun intended. It's I know I'm I know I'm wild and crazy, but no, not not me. When Hurricane Maria happened in Puerto Rico, I could not stay away from the news. Most of my family is there. And when I just kept seeing these images, and it's it was just worse and worse and worse, and hearing my I felt like it was chipping away at my soul, and I couldn't then be like the mom that I needed to be for my family, and I couldn't be the person that I needed to show up to for everything, and it it just it is so I made a very conscious decision to not watch the news. Um, if I need to find out about it, I will, but it won't be through a uh news media because they're just looking for that polarizing, they're just looking for that that the worst case scenario, and it could have been something so simple, and they're gonna they're gonna sensationalize it so that it brings more people, right? It brings more views, and I think that the what I can control, what I have control over is how I react and what I pay attention to.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_05:When the devil in this case uses like that either that inner voice to polarize yourself against yourself, yeah, because that is it happens so much because absolutely we know in our whole heart that God has something so amazing for us, yes, and the devil's like, but you're not worth it, and you're not enough for this, and you're not like that part, right there, right? That's dividing, and that's doing the same thing it's doing to society, it's dividing society, and this is not enough, and this is not worth it. And why are like let's fight, yes, and have that not only that internal fight, but let's do have that external fight, and so I just I see when there's not a conversation that happens with the people that we're looking for guidance, it then becomes like, well, are you leaving me to my devices? Are you leaving me to the devices of the media? Are you leaving am I gonna fland? Like, yes, what are we doing to address the situation as a society, as a community, as oneself? Like, how are we addressing what is happening? Yes, and when they don't, then it feels like, well, you're leaving me hung up to dry. So I need to find what speaks to me, and I feel like that's maybe where you're going with this is yes, you found um something that speaks to you, yes, ma'am, in a profound way.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, man. This podcast is awesome. So what I discovered, and man, I guess to put a shiny red bow on it, like how you mentioned, there was this internal war that was going on, and for the first time ever, Maria, I found that my religion began to war with my ethnicity. And they would like I at that point when there was nothing said, and everybody would just hush hush and just laddie die, just going around about life, and I'm trying to figure out what's going on, who am I, and the condition of my people and our history and our roots. I just couldn't reconcile my religion with my ethnicity anymore. And you brought up a point that is excellent. You talked about Hurricane Maria and how the imagery and the iconography that's shown within the media, how it chips away at your soul. This was another thing, and we're talking about like going against our eyes, because for the most part, most people don't leave the Watchtower Bible and track society because they are X, they are just excellent at what they do. They are excellent at and and I don't want to sound like a bitter divorcee or anything like that, because I got love for JWs all day, every day. But it's like the construct, the religious construct, it is excellent and seamless and a well-owned machine at doing what I guess what I what I like to call quote unquote godly gaslighting and like racial microaggressions, and also promoting this contagion that I would submit to us, and this may be a bold statement, but I would submit and suggest that this virulent virus called white supremacy is the most dangerous contagion or disease that is not just in America, but it is worldwide. And seeing images of a white God and a white savior and white angels, that too, like how you articulate it so eloquently and so beautifully, like that was like seeing images of Hurricane Maria for me. Like it kept on chipping away at me on a subconscious level on a subconscious level, because what white supremacy does is it causes this opposite effect called black inferiority. And so it begins to make me think that, man, that white is right and melanin will never be in. And so I really began to like really began to like really talk to God and say, okay, do you like white people better? Were we just an afterthought? Like, what's up? What's going on?
SPEAKER_05:Did you just leave us in the oven for a little while?
SPEAKER_03:So they can be all round and shiny. Help me out. And so after questioning him, and I love that the king of heaven, he is so big and so loving and so omnibenevolent that our questions do not scare him away. He's he's still on his throne, and he is going to guide us back to what he said, and that's exactly what he did for me. He is the only person that healed that identity crisis that I was encountering by taking me back to his word. And chapters like Deuteronomy 28, chapters like Leviticus 26, these chapters really helped me to see that, oh wow, this is why this is happening to my people specifically. And so reading those chapters and also juxtaposing that with African-American history, things really began to click for me. And he began to show me that you have a lost Hebrew heritage. He began to show me that you have more in common with the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel than you think. He began to show me these things. He began to show me that there is a melanated presence within the Bible, and that just blew me away because I was like, What? Nobody had ever if you would have told me to picture the savior than a Brad Pitt looking Fabio, looking blonde hair, blue-eye with the wind machine just flowing. That image is automatic because pictures and movies and media they store within our mind this Rolodex of imagery because we all think in pictures. And even to the point where I I was reading about a person who was watching The Chosen. I'm a writer and the chosen man, when I tell you that their writing is so sharp. Like it is the dialogue is just man beautiful. But I was reading and I was podcasting about this also, too. This person said that, and I believe it was a millennial or a Gen Zer, that when they pray to God, they were beginning to picture in their mind's eye Jonathan Roomy, the guy who plays the Christ on the chosen. So I was like, man, we keep on getting receipts after receipts, seeing that how and and people know the Satan knows how powerful media is. And that's why I feel like Hollywood is one of his best preachers. Because if I come out with a movie that to get you to plop down and to get you to watch it and get you to download all this imagery, all these scenes, all these dialogues, all these ideals, all these messages, everything is pregnant with the message, no matter how innocuous the film may look, no matter how innocent the book may look, whether it be a children's cartoon, they're all pregnant with the message that and they're all carrying an agenda that they want us to subscribe to. And so realizing this, I was like, man, I'm so happy that you have healed my identity crisis. And I began to like just really have these beautiful conversations with the king of heaven, with Yahweh, and he began to show me within his word that, and so this was like years later, and I'm landing uh my uh plan here, I promise you. This was years later when I realized that the Messiah was preaching a message that just went straight over my head. I feel like it went over a lot of my friends' heads, and I feel like I should I should say this too. Breaking away from the watchtower society was one of the hardest things that I had to ever do. Because all my friends were there, all my buddies that we we played um sports, we played basketball with, we broke bread, we watched movies together, we went and we went to um arcades together, we just hung out, we did life together. But removing and extricating myself from that society, it was so hard. Sundays were really hard too, because I was still living with my mom, and so I had just been in this routine of just every Sunday get your suit, get your tie, get your briefcase, get your New World Translation Bible, and go to the Kingdom Hall. But that wasn't happening for me, and I would see my mom be hurt by that. And I remember one day, and my mom came downstairs, and I was reading the Bible, and I was just really just like voraciously reading the Bible, trying to understand it for myself. And she came downstairs and she was talking, she was like, Like, why won't you come back to the Kingdom Hall? Will you come back and be a Jehovah's Witness? And I I was telling her that I don't think that's for me anymore. And to see her cry and to know that I was the reason for that pain, that was because I too am an empath as well. This may sound super random, but I found out that I was an empath when I was real young, and we went to go see a movie called, I think it's called Ice Age or something like that. And I always felt for the squirrel that was trying to get that nut with that movie. I'm like, man, just give him the acorn. Poor thing. Yeah, man. Like, like my heart like hurt for him. I'm like, why do I feel this way? That's how I realized that I was an empath. And so to realize that, to see that the reason for my mom's tears rolling down her face was me that directly. Because I'm like, man, like I don't want to be the reason for for your pain. And so, against all odds, people don't leave that society because there is a brainwashing that goes on that that they are sublime at. There are there is a sense of belonging that they're excellent at. Also, there is fear-mongering going on as well. That if you are not a Jehovah's Witness, Armageddon can happen in the middle of this podcast. And if you're not in the religion, then you're gonna and you're going to go to this eternal barbecue party that never stops. And so going through all of that, and on the other side, what I realized is that the Messiah was preaching a message that I feel like it blessed me, and I feel like it's it's really gonna bless humanity. And this is what fueled me to pick up the podcasting mic again because I thought I was done podcasting to be honest with you, and this will also fuel the book that I wrote, also, is that he preached a message that he says in Matthew 4:17, and it is the last thing that I thought that I'll say is he preached a message saying that we all need to repent or change our mindset or think differently because the kingdom of heaven has arrived. And when I heard that for the first time in my life, I was like, oh wow, this is what I feel like I was looking for, but I feel like everybody on earth is looking for this utopian government that is always righteous, always holy, always just. And I feel like the only government that meets all that criterion is this beautiful kingdom called heaven, and that's what the Messiah brought back to earth. And I feel like if we were to operate by the principles of heaven, love your neighbor as yourself, honor your father and your mother, don't steal, don't covet, don't murder. If we were to honor those laws and principles of heaven, I feel like the world would be a much better place in helping us against all odds to love each other and to make earth look a lot more like heaven.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Even for somebody that didn't have this uh religious background or whatever, just be a good human. Just be a good human, be kind and be aware of what actions we don't have to be perfect because there's no such thing. We just have to know that what comes from us is always with good intention. So I tell my kids all the time, I there's no manual for you. So I don't know what I don't know. I will always try my best, but that doesn't mean that it's gonna look the same every day. And I'm oh my intention is always to be a good mom to you, always, yes, and may it may not look it definitely didn't look like that when my oldest was growing up, and she's 20 now, and I see the good that came out of all of it, but there was some really tough times. It was never intentionally, let me go make her life a living hell, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_05:It was always it always came from the fact that I'm just trying to be a good mom, yes, and so if you teach P your kids, the people around you, just be a good human, have good intentions, don't hurt others, like it's just simple principles that I feel like society has forgotten, and we are making this our own hell, right? It's all this animosity and fighting and all this stuff is just yes, it's the consequences to our own actions. Have plan that is spot on, yes, and I tell my kids all the time good actions have good consequences, bad actions have bad consequences, yes, and so just know if you do something, there's gonna be a consequence, whatever it is, whether it's good or bad. Yes, and there was a lot of bad that actions that happened, so that's true. Like until we can learn how to come together and and accept each other, just to know that we're doing our best and not be ill-intentioned, I think that's when things will turn a corner. And whatever God you believe in, whatever universe you believe, whatever you believe in, whatever spirit, higher power, whatever you believe in, as long as you are doing good and always with good intention, then I think those are just simple principles. It doesn't matter what, because not everyone was born into a religious background or into a religion, period, right? So just be a good human.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, be kind.
SPEAKER_05:I feel like that is like the overarching theme of all of this is have empathy for others and understand that not everybody is having the same awesome day as you are. So maybe just understand that people are just trying their best.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. Oh, yeah, that is fire.
SPEAKER_03:I I couldn't say it better my own self. Yeah, that is fire.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's that is good.
SPEAKER_03:That's good. I feel like that is like a perfect way to put a ball on it. Like you said, to be a good human being. And I feel like that's what when I started reading like books like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I feel like that's that was a part of the entire tapestry of the good news message because I feel like the Messiah, this Hebrew Messiah, he was so good at being a good human and just helping people out and talking to the Samaritan woman, even when there was some ethnic tension between them and the Israelites back in history, giving deference to women, even though their voices were kind of like minimalized back in biblical antiquity, seeing people who were otherized and marginalized, like tax collectors who were just hated, um, seeing people who were called sinners, seeing people who are prostitutes, and just seeing that no, like your life also matters too. And he was so good at setting the model example of being dehuman to those people. And I feel like he wants us to pass that on as well. And so, yeah, so that's what I'm at. I'm like wherever I go, I just try to make that place look a little bit more like heaven.
SPEAKER_05:So, yeah, I love that. So, two questions. Number one, what is your podcast name?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes, excellent. Yeah, so the podcast name is the kingdom basor, and the kingdom basor is Hebrew for news, the kingdom news in English. And so it is about I'm doing my very best to unbox, to unpack, to demystify this good news message all about the kingdom of heaven. And I have different guests on. We have amazing conversations, and so I talk about like pop cultural, what's going on within pop culture as well, and try to contextualize it within the Bible to like to give us more peace about what's going on. But yes, it's called the Kingdom of Sora podcast.
SPEAKER_05:I'll put the link in the show notes, so no worries about that. And then number two, what's your book called? And when does it come out already or is it being released?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, so I have made my autorial debut, and that's the it sounds surreal to say, but the book is called Thoughts of a Kingdom Citizen, Earth Needs Heaven, and and the book is out, it is in form, and it's also an audiobook as well. And I'm working on getting like the hardcover and the paperback as well, too. And so, yeah, so I would love if you all were uh would be interested to to check it out.
SPEAKER_05:I'll put the link in the show notes as well. So don't worry about that. This has been such a great conversation. So thank you. I'm honored that you were on today, and and this is again where we can come together and as different people from different cultures, from different religious backgrounds, and have a conversation that is so intertwined, and it's and it has so much realness to Not only what you're experiencing, but what I'm experiencing as well. And if we could just do this like on a grander scale, how epic would this life be? I'm just, I just, it blows my mind, but how epic would that be? So thank you. And listeners, I hope that you got so much out of today as I did. And you all, thank you so very much. Listeners, have an amazing rest of your day. Peace out. Love your life. Bye.
