Bipolar Isn't a Life Sentence: Healing the Nervous System with Ana Ruiz

A doctor told Anna Ruiz she’d never heal from bipolar disorder. Twenty years later, she’s married, running her own business, writing a memoir, and teaching other women how to prevent future episodes, not by pretending bipolar disorder is easy, but by learning how the nervous system actually drives the spiral into mania or depression.

We talk through what bipolar disorder looks like in real life, including the difference between bipolar 1 and bipolar 2, why genetics, trauma, chronic stress, and substances can all play a role, and why “just think logically” doesn’t work when the brain’s reasoning center goes offline. Anna shares what her manic episodes were like, how scary the aftermath can be, and what it takes to rebuild trust after shame, grief, and relationships strained by symptoms. I also share my experience as a mom supporting a daughter with a mood disorder, and the painful learning curve of responding with steadier energy instead of escalation.

The biggest shift comes when Anna reframes bipolar as a dysregulated nervous system and starts practicing nervous system regulation, somatic meditation, and early-body-signal awareness to stay inside her window of tolerance. We get specific about daily habits, practical tools, and what “healing” means when it’s a process you choose again and again. If you’re looking for bipolar disorder support, mental health hope grounded in neuroscience, or a clearer way to understand a loved one’s behavior, this conversation will meet you there. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find these stories.

Connect with Ana:
 Website: anaruiz.life

Instagram: @bipolar.healing.coach

Facebook: Bipolar Healing Coach

YouTube: @lovewithbipolar

LinkedIn: Ana Ruiz

Book: Info about her memoir click here

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Against All Odds, the Less than 1% Chance podcast with your host, Maria Ponte, where we will hear stories of incredible people surviving against all odds. And my hope is that we can all see how life is always happening for us, even when we are the less than 1% chance.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Hey, hey, welcome back to Against All Odds, the Less than 1% Chance podcast with your host Maria Ponte. I am so excited for another amazing conversation. We chit-chatted a little bit before, so I really cannot wait for you to hear the story. But let me introduce you before I get ahead of myself. Today's guest was diagnosed with bipolar disorder 20 years ago and was told by doctors that healing wasn't possible. She didn't listen. Today, Anna Ruiz is thriving, married, running her own business, surrounded by people she loves, and living what she calls her purpose every single day. She works with women who have bipolar disorder to help them prevent future episodes and build stable, fulfilling lives. And right now, she's writing a memoir she's always dreamed of. Please welcome Anna Harris. Thank you for joining us today, Anna.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah, thank you so much, Maria, for the opportunity to be here. And thank you for that introduction. And I do want to say thank you for everyone who is watching or listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yes, absolutely. You guys, just so you know, whatever you're watching, either watching or listening, please subscribe, like, follow, share, all the things, right? Just putting that out there. Anna, I always like to start with the epitome of my life, right? Is against all odds. And what is your against all odds story? Where did it start? How did you get to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

So my story of Against All Odds started 20 years ago when I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I remember sitting in a hospital bed staring at the fluorescent lights, feeling groggy, nauseated while the doctors were explaining my diagnosis. And as all of that was happening, I saw in front of me just like flashback the memories of my mom who has been struggling with bipolar disorder since I was 14. She's still suffering. And I just remember saying to myself, I don't want that to be the rest of my life. I don't like just sitting there, I was like, this is not how I want the rest of my life to be. So I was determined to find answers and and to find healing.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

And really the against all odds is that doctors told me that healing from bipolar is not possible. And I did it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I love that. That line, I did it anyways, is literally my entire life. I honestly I feel that people come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime, right? And I think that like when you connect to people that have the same thought processes, it's this huge connection that's like you were just meant to pop into my life. I love

What Bipolar Disorder Means

SPEAKER_02 3:38

it. So can you, for those that are not aware, what is bipolar disorder and what are the causes of bipolar disorder?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah. So the medical definition of bipolar disorder is that it is a mood condition, a mood disorder where people experience just really high scalania, hormonic episodes, or really lows, also known as depression or bipolar depression. And it can be a very debilitating condition. Some of the main reasons or some of the main causes of bipolar disorder are first genetic predisposition. So it gets passed down in the genes, and I can trace back, I just mentioned my mom, but I can trace back my mother line and just see the severe mental illness back at least two or three generations. So there's genetic predisposition. And that also means that a person can carry the gene, and that's not enough to experience the symptoms of bipolar. It needs to be those genes need to be activated. So that leads on to the second cause, which is trauma. So childhood trauma, adult trauma, that's what can really cause that that gene to get activated. The third one is environmental conditions, meaning amount of stress that the person experienced growing up. And I'm talking about like emotional stress. So as you can imagine, for me growing up with a mother with bipolar, it's just a lot of it. Yeah, there was a lot of that. And then some people, the fourth one is when people talk about like drugs, drugs and alcohol that can trigger bipolar.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yeah. As I was telling you prior to starting to record at 12, my daughter was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It was a really I was a single mom that same year I had been diagnosed with cancer twice. So it was a very stressful year. And so I was trying to figure out how to like manage not only her condition and her episodes with two younger kids and taking care of myself too. So it was a lot. So I'm very familiar with that. So I remember, and this is going back about 10 years ago for me. Could

Bipolar 1 Vs Bipolar 2

SPEAKER_02 6:27

you explain the difference between bipolar one and bipolar two?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

So according to the DSM5, which is the book that doctors use for diagnosis, there are two types of bipolar disorder, type one and type two. So type one, the main characteristic is what's known as manic episodes. And these are periods of time that can last for days or even weeks or even months where the person is experiencing hallucinations, delusion, paranoia. So it's really intense. And then those enemies episodes are followed by periods of depression where the person feels she's really sluggish, low motivation, hopeless thoughts. And yeah, so that's type one. And type two, and I was diagnosed with type one. Type two, the main characteristics are what's called hype, and those are like periods of mania and kind of like agitation that doesn't turn into a manic episode, but they're followed by deep depression. And yeah, that is a type.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

That's what my daughter was diagnosed with from what the doctor had told me, you know, bipolar one, typically you'll see the like the high high, and the it's very like it's a very energetic kind of high high and hyperactive. So my daughter was diagnosed with type two because she wouldn't have the high highs, she would have an episode of rage, if you will, which was kind of her high, and then it was like low for a really long time, and then, or sometimes it would she would be super apathetic and then low, and then super apathetic and then low. That's how she was diagnosed as we progressed. She started seeing things. She says that it was like psychosis episodes, yeah. So I don't know. She hasn't gone to a doctor, she's not treating it right now, um, trying to manage as she can. She's 22 years old, so also doesn't live with me, and I don't have the same control that I did before to guide her, but I know there's something there. I'm not sure if it's totally bipolar disorder, but some form of a mood disorder that that is definitely has those ups and downs. I'm familiar with it, and you know, as tough as it is, I'm so grateful that I have even knowledge of it because I think that it brings a certain different level of empathy for when people are having mental health issues. And yeah, so anyways, but I'm very familiar with it. So,

What Mania Looked Like For Anna

SPEAKER_02 9:33

how did your manic episodes look?

SPEAKER_00 9:36

So, my manic episodes were very wild. In the 20 years since I was diagnosed, I went through at least 10 manic episodes that require hospitalization.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And they were really intense. The first time that it happened, well, one of the times that it happened was when I was first diagnosed, and I didn't want to stay in the hospital because I was required to take psychiatric medication and I didn't want to do that. So they discharged me and I'm walking out of the hospital into the helipath, and it's like four stories high, and there's no net or railing or anything around it. I just walk into it and I'm looking up to the sky and I see a helicopter, but I think that because it was dark at night, I just saw the light, and I actually thought that this was God coming to rescue me. That's the hallucinations, and there was a guard saying, You can't be here, you can't be here. I walk out of there, I crossed a lawn just next to the hospital, and I'm standing there doing tripos, like yoga trips. When uh the cops arrived, they tried to arrest me. I resisted. Eventually, they put me on handcuffs. I didn't want to get into the police car, and I kick an officer, they uh they tease me with those like teasers and the teasers. Yeah, and finally got into the police car and I was arrested and taken to jail for a few hours until my friends bail me out. So this is just like one of several. Some other time I accidentally set my bedroom on fire. There have been a number of things. So, this is what I'm writing about in my book because I want to share all these stories along with my healing journey, like how I went from there to being the woman that I am now, that I heal myself and I am thriving in life.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, I mean, I love that that is the trajectory, but I can imagine how scary that was in that moment.

Awareness Gaps And Family Impact

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Do you I guess maybe my question comes more from I always wanted to understand my daughter? Yeah, but as she was still young, it wasn't something that she could articulate. Did you realize the things that happened in the moment, or was it more of uh looking back, I realized that this is what was happening. Was that something that you were like consciously like, I know this is bad, but I'm gonna do it anyways? Or was it like, I don't even remember how it I got there, and looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

So, for the most part, while the episode is happening, the part of the brain that is responsible for logic and reasoning, it's called prefrontal cortex, it goes offline. Yeah, so while it's happening, I don't really know, I'm not aware. Oh yeah, I'm conscious, but I'm not aware of what's happening, and I'm not aware of the things I'm doing, and I'm also not aware of the risks, which is what makes those episodes very risky. Yeah, and once the episode is over, and as the days go by, I start to remember, but not everything. For a while, I had these memory gaps and blackouts, like things that I just didn't remember.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Yeah, I yeah, as a parent, I didn't necessarily understand that always. And when she would hit me or pull out my hair, or there was a moment that she like threw everything out of every drawer, the closet took everything out through there was clothes and everything all over her room, and then she would feel bad, and like it was such a like shock as a parent. It was such a like I can't look at you right now because I'm I don't even know how to process this myself. How is this even it's there were so many nights that I would just like cry myself to sleep because I was like, they're two different people, it's two completely different people. The the one that that is like like you could see it in her eyes, the rage, the not fairness kind of thing, and then the complete, like mournful her that then felt like but it but I didn't mean to do that, and I'm just like this is a lot to process, you know. So I thank you for sharing because I think that that kind of puts it a lot into perspective in understanding that she didn't have the control, um, and someone that doesn't necessarily have that um that switch, you know, it's really hard to understand. And as much like I we went to therapy, I I anything and everything. She went through some test trials. Um I made sure that we got involved in community things, um, there was federation of families, all of these different things that I could do to better be a parent to her uh in in that moment, but it was it was not easy.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, I mean, I can imagine just like having the perspective of the work I've done on myself, and now I can, it's almost like I can look down at the woman that I was for the last 20 years. Yeah.

The Healing Shift To Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

So how did you start to heal from bipolar disorder? I'm very interested to know because I would love to help my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Of course, yes, absolutely. So I did like everything that I was told: medication, therapy, then I stopped the medication, then I started it again, I tried homeopathy, I tried Ayurveda, which is a form of medicine from India. I tried energy healing, I became an energy healer myself, you name it. I was just desperate to find answers. And eventually I met my mentor, Hanima Ramani, and I started working with him on something completely unrelated to bipolar disorder. And as I start working with him, I start noticing shifts in my nervous system. Um he's a trauma and nervous system specialist. So I started noticing shifts in my nervous system. I start noticing that I can feel things that emotions that I couldn't feel before. And that's because my nervous system was in either freeze or shutdown or fight or flight, like hypervigilance, but there was never like a baseline or like a calm state. I was always like doing one, like yeah, it was like either a fight or flight or freeze and shutdown. So as I started working with him, I started noticing that I can feel in my body, I can feel emotions. And one day he told me something that stayed with me. He said, bipolar disorder is a form of a dysregulated nervous system. And I just went like, wow, because I have been told that it's a chemical imbalance, and maybe there is some imbalance, but nobody knows why there's a chemical imbalance. They say that, oh well, it's genetic. There's no clear information about where that imbalance comes from, or like how to rebalance it in a way that does not involve medication. Yeah, right. So I figure, okay, if it's about the nervous system, I'm gonna heal my nervous system. And that is basically what I did heal my brain, heal my nervous system from all the trauma that I experienced growing up and as an adult. And I also learned to feel in my body when that manic energy or the pressive energy starts to come up. And in the case of the manic energy, like before, because I was not feeling I didn't know even when an episode started, right? Like my husband would have to give me a nudge or sometimes just get me in the car and take me to the hospital. But like now with the work that I did, I can feel like butterflies in my solar plexus, and I know when that happens to stop what I'm doing and use the tools that I've learned to regulate my nervous system, and then it goes away. It doesn't escalate in the past, it would escalate and become a manic episode, but now I can dissolve it. And the same thing with depression before the lows get really low, I know the tools to help regulate my nervous system and come back to safety.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah. Just um I'm sharing um a little bit this this same that this week, my daughter came to me at like 4 30 in the morning because she doesn't live with me, and she's like, Can I just get a hug? I feel like I'm a burden to everybody. And I'm like, Oh my precious baby, if you only knew. And it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

It's hard because that's part of what goes with when I said like healing the trauma and the nervous system, it's also healing the stories of feeling like a burden to others, feeling shame for the things that we've done or we've said when we were manic, feeling the guilt of burning down relationships, jobs. It's like I was fired from jobs before because of this.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

So it's uh so yeah, kind of you know, when it when when things like really just touch very precious parts of your story, and especially when things are currently happening that you're like, oh my gosh. And it I truly believe that people come into our lives exactly when they need to. So maybe this was exactly what I needed this week. Um so yeah, I thank you for that. So

What “Healed” Means In Practice

SPEAKER_02 21:44

to you, what does it mean when you say I healed myself from bipolar? It doesn't mean that you don't have it, it just means that you I'm guessing that you're able to learn how to manage.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

The highs and lows is that what so it goes a little bit further. What I mean when I say that I'm healed is and I'm gonna say something that is gonna sound bold. We are all bipolar. We all have ups and downs. The only difference is my ops used to be like really high ups, and my downs were really, really downs. Okay. So with the work that I've done is my nervous system now moves like this within a window of tolerance. Let's call it like an optimal window of tolerance. And when it starts getting outside of that window, I know what to do to bring it down. Now, is the mania ever gonna go away? I have noticed over the years how it's less and less intense and less and less frequent. Same thing with the depression. And I'm really like understanding that like the highs or like the ops, it's a nervous system that's going into fight or flight. Right. So I've learned to like normalize the way my nervous system behaves.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

But I think the main thing is I don't have I don't have the mania and I and I don't have the manic episodes and I don't have the depression.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And also I've done my nervous healing work is I've also increased my capacity a bit, right? To feel, to process, to hold, to handle all emotions that in the past my nervous system was like this, right? Yeah. So I had no capacity for emotion. Any emotion would just like make me like explode and into a manic episode. Stress, like a lot of stress at work, or something going on with my parents, my siblings, and my relationship, like would just like make me like explode. Where now I have just more capacity to hold all the emotions that are part of life. Yeah. So that's why I call healed. If you if I'm being honest, I'm still working on myself and still healing. So I don't think there's ever a thing such as like heal, like if it's done, you can move on. No, I'm still working on myself, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah, I love that. And that's true for everybody, right? I can say, you know, I've healed from sexual trauma and I've healed from you know cancer. I can say that, but that is a constant choice every day to look at the perspective in life, and you know, we could go down the rabbit hole.

unknown 25:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

And I have we all have those moments. Like you said, I feel like we're all bipolar, we all have our ups and downs. It's just I can understand that the capacity of what we can learn to tolerate or what we can handle, if you will. So I love that so very much.

Limiting Beliefs That Kept Her Stuck

SPEAKER_02 25:28

So what what limiting beliefs or roadblocks do you feel you had to overcome to get to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

I mean, but there were many.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

One that comes to mind for me is I had to stop looking outside of myself for healing. Okay. I it's like I was like, if I just try homeopathy, if I just try this other thing, if I just if I just do more hours of therapy, if I just like right, and I just kept looking outside for something that was inside of myself. It was my nervous system all along. And and it took me a lot of years to find the right teachers and eventually find my mentor to learn that.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

I love that. I again really the things that I tell my daughter, um, because she's like, well, so and so I need my boyfriend to help calm me down. And I'm like, I mean, do we we've worked on many different tools to for you to put in your toolbox? Can we maybe learn how to breathe and kind of get some oxygen in that beautiful brain of yours? Can you take five minutes and calm your system? Take a walk, like do things that are not dependent on something outside of yourself because the only person that you can forever count on is you. Yeah, people go away, people are unavailable. You can't count on the outside, you can only count on yourself, and you're so we have to figure out a way to to not depend on somebody else to calm you down. And as like, I think that she's probably tired of hearing that from me, but that's gonna be the squeaky wheel that mom is always gonna be like, it's inside you, kid. Like one day, one day hopefully she'll she'll hear it. But I love that I love that that's what you said. Maybe I will just send her the clip of that part of our conversation, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, I love it. And I guess the other one is like for me to think that okay, once I heal from bipolar, then like all my problems will go away.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

And and that is so far from the truth, right? Agreed. It's like my dad has dimension, he's in Mexico City, I live in the US, my brother lives in Germany, so we're navigating this caregiving within like from afar, right? From afar, different time zones, and yeah, the only difference is that now I have more capacity, yeah. But things don't go away, problems don't go away, it's just part of life.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yeah, that's a good one. That's a

Daily Habits That Build Stability

SPEAKER_02 28:45

good one. So, are there any like daily habits or rituals that you do every day to help you get to this level of healing or this level of success in your world?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, and I love that you asked that question because those are habits that I develop as I was healing and that I continue.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Call it self-care, call it maintenance, and it has to like continue every single day. So I wake up in the morning and I listen to about 30 minutes to an hour of thematic just to help my nervous system reset because it's like sometimes we wake up from the night and we don't feel that great. So it's just like our nervous system that is doing whatever it's doing. So I do my meditations and then I go outside and I run one mile. And then I have I take a shower and then I sit in the garden for 15-20 minutes with a cup of tea, just contemplating the garden, just watching, just breathing how I start my day. And then at night I have similar habits where sometimes I listen to another somatic meditation, or I do some reading, or I do something to help me kind of like calm down from the day.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

I love that. I love habits, they're my favorite. I remember, and I feel like I mean, I think we all benefit from habits, but when there is a mental health situation, whatever it may be, I feel like the daily habits that you create is the ritual that you need to kind of like get back to your center. I remember when that my kids were younger, I worked from home and I would take them to school every day. And this is when they were all in elementary school to like, I think my youngest was pre-K, but I would have them do a ritual of before they left the car, they would repeat, something wonderful will happen to me today, three or four times, and then they would give me three affirmations and and something that they were grateful for, and every day was something different, and and so they we called it the wonderfuls because something wonderful will happen to me today. Like it, I wanted their morning to start off with something because our mornings were always chaos. She didn't want to wake up, she would fight me. She was twice, two times that she had gotten taken to a psych unit was due to morning craziness.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

It was just yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

So I had to, I also like again, as a parent, not knowing the manual on on this life, I remember having to learn that before I would wake her up in the morning, because if she had to, let's say, as an example, be up at seven, normally I would just go in at seven, hey, I need you to get up. Like, wake up, and she would fight and I would then get upset and it would like continue to elevate from there. I started to learn that I I always woke up earlier, but instead of an immediate workout, I would wake up and do like a 10-minute, 15-minute meditation myself.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Because my energy is gonna be matched, not the other way around. And so I would wake up and then I would wake her up at 6 45 rather than 7 and would say, Good morning, baby. It's time to get up. And then she would do her normal uh like groaning. And I said, Okay, do you want another 15 minutes? And it would still be the same time that she needed to wake up, but it was her choice to wake up at that time rather than this time. So it I had to learn how to work around our mornings so that it wouldn't be complete and total chaos. But the one thing that we did in the car before I dropped them off at school was our wonderfuls. And it was just the cutest thing. I loved it. And sometimes I just did a state licensing test, and on my notebook, they give you a pad of like an erasable pad, and on the top I said something wonderful will happen to me today. Let it be whatever it needs to be. Let something wonderful happen to me today, and so it just it kind of reminded me now that they're older. I'm like, oh, I miss those things.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Beautiful practice too.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, it was a lot of learning how to navigate as you're seeing someone that you could not imagine your life without struggle, and it was so hard. It was a lot of okay, thinking outside the box and all of that. So I I love that that you kind of that same pattern.

unknown 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

I'm so incredibly grateful for this conversation. It helped my heart, my mama heart a lot, especially with like the current situation, what she's experiencing right now. I think that it kind of brought a lot of clarity to me as well. So I'm so grateful for this conversation today.

Memoir And Coaching Program Details

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Is there anything? So when is the book coming out? What how can people work with you?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, so there are a couple of things that I've been working on. So the book is gonna be published either later this year or next year.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

And if people wanna, people can go to my website and read more about the book, like why am I writing it? Like, I I do want to reach people with bipolar, let them know they're not alone, and also share with them what is possible. Yeah and for their loved ones to get a window into what a person goes through like when they are having bipolar symptoms, right? Yeah, so you can go to my website and subscribe to my email list and get updates of when the book's available.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

And then right now I'm working on a program, the group coaching program, specifically for women with bipolar who want to. And the vision for that is women go through well, anyone going through bipolar, there's the shame of the things they've done, the guilt. There's also a lot of grief for who the person was before the diagnosis, who they are now, and there's also an element of identity rewiring that I'll be doing in that program because it's so easy to like bipolar disorder can be so overwhelming that we think that's who we are, and there's so much more of who we are. So we're gonna do all the work of like healing all those things. It's a three-month program, and I'm gonna be opening the doors very soon. And I just love the name Becoming You.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I love that so much. So I will put in the show notes your website information and how people can connect with you maybe on social media and follow along because I'm very excited for for your projects coming.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Thank you, thank you. And I want people to know that they can reach to me, like from my website, you can send me a message, you can book a consultation, like there are a number of ways, something in my socials, like you can send me DMs. So I just want people to know that that I'm open and available and that they can reach out.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I love it. So I will put all of that information in the show notes. Anna, really, thank you so very much from the bottom of my heart. This conversation was probably exactly what I needed this week. So I'm going to say that it was just divine timing that we connected this week specifically. So I appreciate you. I loved our conversation and loved getting to know you. So thank you for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Well, thank you so much, and thank you for sharing openly and vulnerably your experience as a mother because we need to have these conversations, we need to continue the support because there's so much more out there than what the doctors have been saying, and and the work that I've been doing is backed with science, it's like neuroscience, neurobiology. So this is not woo woo. Yeah. This is this is this is the real stuff. So and thank you for anyone who's who's been listening and tuning in. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Yeah, thank

Final Reflections And Goodbye

SPEAKER_02 38:39

you. So, listeners, I hope again you got so much out of today's conversation. And just in some way, shape, or form. I know that we all have somebody in our lives that we care about that may not be always they may be dealing with things, and this may have helped just a little bit to give you kind of an insight on it's not always easy, and we just have to understand and kind of give this space for healing as well. So I hope that you got a lot from this conversation like I did. Again, Anna, thank you and listeners, as always, peace out, love your life, and bye bye.